Well, our Cosmere Chickens, sadly all good things must come to an end, and so must this reread. In this final chapter, we get a stunning moment in which Hoid of all people is bested, proving that he’s certainly not as omniscient as he likes to believe that he is.
Reminder: we’ll be discussing spoilers for the entirety of the series up until now – if you haven’t read ALL of the published entries of the Stormlight Archive (this includes Edgedancer and Dawnshard as well as the entirety of Rhythm of War), best to wait to join us until you’re done.
[In this week’s discussion we also discuss some things from Warbreaker and Tress of the Emerald Sea in the Cosmere Connections section, so if you haven’t read it, best to give that section a pass.]
Front Matter
Heralds: Joker, Wild Card
Shalash (Ash), Herald of Beauty. Lightweavers (Illumination, Transformation). Creative/Honest. Role: Artist
L: The Joker always appears in a Hoid POV chapter, and Shalash is here because Hoid is also now a Lightweaver. (As if he didn’t have enough powers, right?)
Icon: Double Eye
Chapter Recap
WHO: Wit/Hoid
WHEN: 1175.4.10.5
(Note: For the “when” notations, we are using this wonderful timeline provided by the folks at The 17th Shard.)
WHERE: Elhokar’s palace in the Shattered Plains
RECAP: Wit heads off to the Shattered Plains, intending to meet with Odium and gloat. However, he gets more than he intended, and Taravangian plays him for a fool.
Chapter Chat – Illusion
“Storytelling,” he said to the hallway, “is essentially about cheating.”
P: And flat out lying!
L: Well, sure. Fiction is lying, from a certain point of view.
“The challenge,” he said, “is to make everyone believe you’ve lived a thousand lives. Make them feel the pain you have not felt, make them see the sights you have not seen, and make them know the truths that you have made up.”
L: As a writer… yeah. This is accurate.
P: Sooo accurate! You have to be so profound at times when telling a story. Like I can scarcely get out of bed some days but I’m supposed to make my readers believe my version of make believe?
“Get them to anticipate a punch and brace themselves, so you can reposition. Always hit them where they aren’t prepared.”
L: Very good advice for any aspiring authors out there. Not that I would usually advocate taking Wit’s advice on… well, almost anything, but this is an exception.
P: I think Wit has given some very good advice so far throughout this series. I don’t know about his motives, but I do like the way he’s talked with Kaladin and Shallan.
L: For Shallan, yes. Kaladin I’m kind of torn on, as Wit can be a bit condescending with him.
Wit cocked his head. There was something odd about this change in tone from Odium. Asking whom Wit would choose? Rayse wouldn’t care to know.
Never mind, Odium said quickly. It matters not.
L: Ah hah. Taravangian realized his mistake.
P: I was hoping he would continue to make mistakes. But really, I found it unusual that Taravangian thought he could outwit Hoid. What happens notwithstanding… it showed a lot of arrogance.
L: Maybe? Now that Taravangian’s got the powers and memories of a literal god, I don’t think it’s necessarily arrogant of him to expect to be on an even footing (at least) with Hoid.
It’s all about giving you what you expect.
L: Nice full-circle back to what Hoid was talking about at the beginning of the chapter. This whole chapter is all about misdirection and illusion.
P: And unfortunately, Wit gets the raw end of the deal here.
Something was wrong. But what?
L: What indeed? And what repercussions is this going to have, long-term?
P: I hope he figures it out, and soon, and that it can be reversed, whatever T did.
Spren & Shadesmar
…a few odd spren were following in the air. Almost invisible, and trailing red light. Windspren—but the wrong color. She was expanding her influence, that old one was. He was curious where it would lead. Also horrified. But the two emotions were not mutually exclusive.
L: So Sja-anat is extending her influence, eh? I’m just as curious as Wit to see where this winds up going. Is there a limit to how many spren she can corrupt?
P: I wouldn’t expect that there would be a limit. Unless Odium finds her out.
L: It’s possible. If she’s extending some of her own power into them in order to corrupt them, for instance, it stands to reason there could be a limit.
Cosmere Connections
Wit sighed, tossing four coins in the air, then catching them and presenting one solitary coin.
“They don’t even use those for money here,” Design added. “So you’ll only distract them. Use spheres.”
L: Nice little call-out to Mistborn, or at least I’d assume. Scadrial is the world that most often uses coins, at any rate.
P: Yes, I’m assuming that’s where these are from. I love that Design tells him to use spheres, and he uses the excuse that they glow. You could use dun spheres, dear.
Wit started down a side hallway, but then felt something. A tingling that made his Breaths go wild.
L: As of this moment, we know that he is at least of the Second Heightening, which grants him perfect pitch, the ability to recognize unsupressed Breath auras, and judge about how much breath another Awakener has. Now… I suspect that it’s not just Breath auras he can sense, and any elevated Investiture would be recognizable, and that’s how he senses Odium in this instance. I seriously doubt that Odium has Breath, specifically. (Yet.)
P: Yeah, we haven’t had any inkling that he has at this point.
“Sense, Odium. The only kind I have is nonsense.”
L: I find it very interesting that he speaks quite a lot about sense here… and sense is the thing that’s taken from him in Tress of the Emerald Sea.
P: His cents and scents notwithstanding, Wit does have some sense. Except in Tress, of course.
I hate you.
“Rayse, dear,” Wit said, “you’re supposed to be an idiot. Say intelligent things like that too much, and I’ll need to reevaluate. I know you adjusted the contract, trying for an advantage. How does it feel to know that Dalinar bested you?”
P: Did Dalinar best him, though? I mean, if Wit says it’s so, then it’s so, right? Storms, I hope so.
L: Best? I don’t believe that. Thrown him off his game for a moment, sure. Everyone makes mistakes (as Hoid is showing us quite clearly in this chapter), so I wouldn’t call Dalinar’s success here an unequivocal win. Once we see how it all turns out we’ll be able to better judge this.
P: I have so much anxiety about SA5, it’s not even funny.
Was Rayse growing more thoughtful? Wit didn’t need to worry, did he? After all this, Odium would be safely imprisoned, no matter what happened. There was no way out.…
Unless …
Wit’s breath caught, but then he forced himself to keep whistling and walking.
P: Unless what? WHAT??
L: I hate it when authors do this.
A power slammed into him from behind. A golden energy, infinite and deadly. Wit’s eyes went wide, and he gasped, sensing something horribly wrong about that power.
P: This is terrifying. And what’s horribly wrong? Is it that Taravangian is way worse than Rayse was?
L: Either that or there’s something about Cultivation’s gift that’s interfering or corrupting it. But I’d be more willing to accept the former. I suspect that the gift was lost when Taravangain ascended from one body to another. (Which would mean that these gifts are linked to your physical form and not your soul/cognitive form, which is a whole ‘nother can of theoretical beans I’m fascinated to find out about.)
Let me see … I cannot harm you. But here, you have used this other Investiture to store your memories, haven’t you? Because you’ve lived longer than a mortal should, you need to put the excess memories somewhere. I can’t see your mind, but I can see these, can’t I?
For the first time in a long, long while, Wit felt true terror. If Odium destroyed the Breaths that held his memories …
L: This is really cool. The concept of holding memories within Breaths/Investiture reminds me a little of the memories drawn out of people and placed in the pensieve in the Series That Shall Not Be Named. I wonder if memories could be stored in any Investiture, or if there’s something special about Breaths that allows them to be utilized in this manner…
P: Cool, I never thought about the pensieve before. This is a really interesting concept, actually. That Hoid has memories stored in Breaths like they were in a pensieve.
He tried to find a tune to whistle, but each one sounded wrong. Something was fiddling with his perfect pitch.
L: So in order to destroy those short-term memories, T-Odium either destroyed or removed the Breaths, leaving Wit with less. I don’t believe that Investiture can be destroyed, much like energy cannot be destroyed in our world. I would be much more inclined to believe that T-Odium took those breaths. The question is… how much did he take, and in so doing, could T-Odium see the memories they contained? Just how many hundreds of years of memories could Hoid have stored in there? It’s a terrifying thought to think that he might have just learned all of Hoid’s plans over the years. I doubt that he would have only squirreled away his short term memories, after all.
Will he notice the loss, eventually? Only time will tell.
P: He’s got to notice eventually, right? But will he realize what happened once he does notice?
His audience of corrupted windspren trailed after her. Traitors.
L: I always love Wit POV chapters. His character voice is just so much fun.
P: I just adore Wit. As untrustworthy as he may be, he is one of my favorites.
I noticed your touch on the contract, a dramatic voice said in his head.
“You’ve always been a clever one,” Wit said. “Was it my diction that clued you in, my keen bargaining abilities, or the fact that I included my name in the text?”
L: Classic Hoid.
P: I adore his sarcasm. I can only dream about being so wonderfully sarcastic.
“Let me know how the brooding treats you. I spent a century doing it once, and I think it improved my complexion.”
L: Ah, so he could actually give Kaladin some pointers!
P: Well Kaladin’s complexion just got markedly better on its own!
***
We’ll be leaving further speculation and discussion to you in the comments, and hope to join you there! It’s been a pleasure re-reading with you, as always. Hopefully there will be more to talk about before it’s time to dive back into the next Stormlight novel. Is there something that you’d like to see us cover, or other Sanderson-related topics or characters you’d like to discuss in greater depth? Let us know in the comments!
Paige resides in New Mexico, of course. She’s very happy that baseball is back and can’t wait to go watch the Yankees play in Los Angeles in June! She also looks forward to starting another reread for you all. Links to her other writing are available in her profile.
Lyndsey is starting rehearsals for Robin Hood’s Springtime Faire in just two weeks, and she’s incredibly excited. If you enjoy queer protagonists, snarky humor, and don’t mind some salty language, check out book 1 of her fantasy series. Follow her on Facebook or TikTok!
“Is there something else that you’d like to see us cover…”
The Secret Projects are probably a good start.
There is a way to put memories into something besides breath; but I’m not sure if Hoid can use it since that’s fermuchemry, and that the memories in there can degrade over long peroid of time’s but it is a loopwhole Hoid could possibly use.
Thank you for this article and the whole reread! I personally would need a reread of the whole Mistborn saga :D but knowing how long that would take, perhaps yeah … something with a shorter span would be a better idea. The secret projects would be good, though I personally have not had the time to read “Tress” yet (but planning real soon!). There are also the stories in “Arcanum Unbound” that I do not think have had a reread treatment?
I probably wasn’t as terrified as Hoid, but I really was terrified when I read (and reread) this chapter. What just happened? How did T-Odium take Hoid’s Breaths and memories? How much did he take them? What else did he see? What are the implications and long-term results? So many questions! I do hope Hoid figures out what’s going on soon. Or at least that something IS going on.
And what repercussions is this going to have, long-term? – That is an excellent question, one that I also already echoed above. But this particular phrase made me snicker for a totally unrelated reason, being now freshly reminded by a comment to Judith Tarr’s last article. In Ilona Andrews’ “Sweep of the Blade”, 4-year Helen is threatened her certain actions would lead to repercussions, after which she happily announces she will get “ripper cushions”. Try to read “repercussions” after that with a straight face! (As it is, I also think “ripper cushions” is something Hoid himself might approve.)
Edit: wanted to add but forgot. Steven @2, I was also instantly reminded of the metalminds, but yeah, cannot remember if it has been said whether Hoid can use them or not. And I can see how he would prefer Breaths as these are always in him and have always been a safe method (until now).
I’ve always been bothered by that “writers are liars” thing. Yes, fiction isn’t literally true, but the key difference is that a lie is intended to be believed. Whereas with fiction all that’s needed is the suspension of disbelief, which isn’t quite the same thing.
Thank you, Paige and Lyndsey!
I can’t believe we’ve reached the end of the reread.
Fantastic job, y’all!
This epilogue blew my mind – anything that frightens Hoid is truly scary.
I can’t wait (and am also nervous about) Book 5.
My first thought was also metalminds but it IS interesting to know that you can ‘store’ memories in Breath (how does that even work? But then….how does storying memories in metal work, lol? At least that has some kind of physicality to it, although Breaths do have a quantifiable measurement so clearly they exist as something).
It’s been awhile since I actually read the book but I do remember that feeling of everything wrapping up (for now) and then this epilogue which really ended on a CHILLING note! The long term implications are terrifying!
It’s worth noting that there’s a new section in the Ars Arcanum to address Stoneshaping. A lot of it is the usual technical explanation of how it works (which is always interesting to a certain group of readers!) but there’s also this little note:
Who, pray tell, is that? Did Khriss send Nazh to be a Stoneward? Or, if he can’t attract the spren, a squire or some level of wannabee? She says that his research has been illuminating, so … what does that mean in terms of character arcs and suchlike? Or is Nazh not her “best agent” — is that someone else? Probably should keep an eye out for him in the next book; I haven’t (yet) spotted him in this one.
Beyond that, there’s a fascinating comment about Navani’s creation of anti-Investiture. Khriss attributes it to both Intent and Command, which is worth some pondering for the Cosmere fan. Navani understood the necessity of Intent in inverting the tone, but how much is Command separate from Intent?
Finally, Khriss makes a reference to “Foil, deep within his ocean” who has a stated goal of achieving control over the aethers. I don’t *think* he was referenced in The Lost Metal, so I suspect he’s a seed planted for later stories. Perhaps if Aether of Night ever gets rewritten, or folded into another story, we’ll learn about him?
First, thank you to Lyndsey, Paige, and Alice for all the time and effort they have put into these rereads over the years.
Second, I would enjoy seeing rereads of all books/stories mentioned above. I would also enjoy seeing a Hoid retrospective that includes where he has appeared, what he has done, what abilities we know he has, and speculation on what his end goal might be. A revised secret society post would also be appreciated since so much has changed/expanded since the last one.
Finally, some speculations:
Wit says there is no way for Odium to escape, but thinks of a loophole. Could that binding have been specifically tied to Rayse? It’s hard to tell when the Shard name is used interchangeably with the wielder.
I wonder if Cultivation is able to work with/through Odium because of the gift. After all, we don’t know what her feelings about Hoid are, do we?
@8, 7
Yes, thank you again Alice!
I am not convinced Hoid was played by TOdium.
(In fairness, the events in Tress changed my mind on this ending.)
The whole chapter is about sleight of hand, present the unexpected and turn at the last moment to “cheat” you way to what you want. Whether Hoid knew that Rayze was replaced or not, he certainly realized in within the conversation. I think the “Unless” has more to do with Hoid realizing what had happened to Odium, not that there was possibly a loophole (and there still might be one, tbh).
So was Hoid feigning ignorance that anything wrong happened at the end by putting on a show for TOdium or did he get outmanoeuvred by Todium? I am pretty sure Hoid has a “back-up drive” somewhere and nothing is lost, but I believe he now has more information gained from the meeting than he is letting on.
Book 5 cannot get here soon enough!
Thanks not only to Alice, Lyndsey and Paige, but to all the folks that made so many great comments over the re-read.
Thanks Alice, Lyndsey and Paige for all your work on this epic reread. I’m not a big commenter, but have really enjoyed reading your analysis and theorising over the last few years. Cheers!
Thank you for the rereads and all the extra enjoyment they added to the books.
I was seriously freaked out by what happened to Hoid. Todium is even more dangerous than Rayse. I know that Hoid’s motives and goals are still a mystery but I can’t help but root for him.
I’m hoping his spren will help him realize what has happened. Since he lost his perfect pitch it has to become apparent if someone else points it out to him. Unless he lost so much that he no longer even knows what the breaths mean. Are they lost for good? So many questions and so long to wait for some answers.
In addition to copperminds, I also thought of the chapter 84 epigraph:
which makes me think that it should be possible with any type of Investiture, not just Breath or feruchemy.
Thanks again, ladies (all three).
Remember (from Warbreaker) that Vasher/Zahel has some kind Breath-based memory magic. He uses it on that traumatized girl. He might even be able to help Hoid.
Alice writes: “Finally, Khriss makes a reference to “Foil, deep within his ocean” who has a stated goal of achieving control over the aethers. I don’t *think* he was referenced in The Lost Metal, so I suspect he’s a seed planted for later stories. Perhaps if Aether of Night ever gets rewritten, or folded into another story, we’ll learn about him?”
SPOILER for a Secret Project: Foil is (I believe) in Tress as Xisisrefliel, who lives under an ocean (of spores) and studies aethers.
Steve-son-son-Charles writes, ‘I am pretty sure Hoid has a “back-up drive” somewhere and nothing is lost, but I believe he now has more information gained from the meeting than he is letting on.’ This was actually foreshadowed — we see that Jasnah has cloud backups of her notes (lost in a pirate attack!) that she gets back by having remote scribes spend hours with spanreeds. Also, the Spiritual Realm is timeless, making it hard to permanently lose anything, and we see Hoid have a strong Spiritual ability to, not know, but act as if he knows about the future.
Page, Lyndsey and Alice. Thank you all for your efforts to provide weekly summaries and commentaries. Each week was both informative and enjoyable, even when I disagreed with your opinions. You ladies provided amazing insights. You picked out things I did not realize, even after multiple re-reads. If you are willing, I hope Tor will allow you to do the same thing for Book 5.
I do not think TOdium will care that Sja-anat is, as Hoid opines, “expanding her influence”. No text to support my opinion; merely a gut feeling. TOdium seems to be more Cosmere focused that ROdium. Perhaps that is because Rayse was trying for probably for millenniums, if not an eon. I take it that TOdium can no more leave the Roshar system at the end of RoW than could ROdium?
To me, RoW was a psychological thriller. It relied much more on the characters emotions and psyches than the other SA books. IIRC, Brandon has said that each of his books are different themes/stories/motifs wrapped in a broader fantasy novel. For example, at its heart, Mistborn (especially the first book of the first trilogy) is a heist story. RoW, on the other hand, is a psychological thriller.
I like RoW; but it was not my favorite Stormlight Archive book. I believe this was as well a written book as the other books in SA. The reason I did not like it as much as I liked the other books in the series was many of the Navani chapters. I like her character and before RoW, I enjoyed her character (both her PoV chapters and when she was in other characters’ PoV chapters). My problem was that IMO too many of her chapters were too heavy on science. Sciences are not my strength; I did not study physical sciences in college and such detailed sciences are not part of my day to day life. For me, there was too much scientific details in too many chapters. They made these chapters tough for me to read as I slogged through the scientific principles. Those readers who are more scientifically inclined/aware, may have had an easier time digesting these scenes.
As a result of the science heavy Navani chapters, I do not think I was unable to fully appreciate the dynamics/interplay between Navani and Raboniel. This disappointed me because I think their interactions was the heart of this book. I thought Rabionel was an amazingly well written character. Raboniel is one of the most complex characters I have read in a long time (if ever).
I think the Shadesmar and Dalinar/Jasnah chapers were a nice balance to the Tower occupation chapters. As there were numerous Tower occupation chapters, the other chapters did not seem too distracting to the central plot in RoW – the Tower occupation chapter. I even thought the Kaladin chapters created a nice change of pace. I am generally not a fan of Kaladin. I feel his arcs in each book are the same; deep depression and trying to slog his way to light. After reading the Chapter where Wit temporarily rescues Kaladin from his Odium-induced visions, I now look at Kaladin’s chapters in a different light. Wit tells Kaladin’s life will get worse, then get better, then worse, then better, etc. Wit notes that this cycle is part of life. It is just magnified in Kaladin’s situation as he suffers from depression so sometimes the worse cycles become very dark for Kaladin. If I can remember this for all other books where Kaladin is a focus character, then hopefully I can more tolerate the Kaladin chapters where he is in his depressive mood.
Paige & Lyndsey. Are you going to summarize and discuss the full context of El’s musings when combined together in one document? Also, what are your thoughts on the 4 pictures of the Heralds in RoW?
My personal wild-ass guess is that Hoid’s flute, which was recovered by Kaladin, is a metalmind that contains references to the memories that Odium stole, and getting it back will make Hoid aware of his missing memories.
Thank you so much for running this reread! I agree with the commenters who’ve said that it would be interesting to see a post about the various secret societies that have turned up in the Cosmere.
Regarding Hoid’s missing memories, I’m reminded of a Star Trek episode in which a species of xenophobic aliens erase the Enterprise crew’s memories of having met them. But the characters find various signs pointing to the period of “missing time” during which the encounter happened. Worf has a recently-healed injury that he doesn’t remember getting, some of Crusher’s plants have grown more than they should, etc. I wonder if something similar will clue Hoid in to the fact that something happened, even if he isn’t sure what?
As for Hoid’s goals…My big theory about the Cosmere is that some of the factions and powerful individuals we’ve met have the goal of reconstructing Adonalsium, while others want to prevent his reconstruction. I think Hoid’s ultimate goal is one of those two.
Hoid was holding at least one coin when TOdium manifested. There are hints in other places that Hoid might have acquired feruchemical powers, by which means he could store memories in the coin(s) in his hand if they happen to be copper. The chapter being about misdirection, and Hoid having much more practice at it than Taravangian, I’d bet more on Hoid here than on TOdium.
As for “something horribly wrong about that power,” I see a few possibilities: as others have said, it could be a lingering effect from Cultivation’s meddling or the change of vessel; alternatively, it could be because the shard Odium was touched (recently, even) by Nightblood. Or maybe the power of Odium just always feels horribly wrong. Thanks for the ambiguity, Brandon.
I am completely unsure how to read Hoid/Wit’s “terror”…is it true or just playing to TOdium? If Hoid is using the coins as copperminds, he might be misdirecting TOdium to think the Breaths hold the memories, and intentionally storing (and thus forgetting) the memory of the first iteration of the conversation into the coppermind while TOdium fiddles with the Breaths.
I feel like this is cleverly written to the point we really don’t know who won that exchange from what’s here.
@15 AndrewHB
I liked RoW, as well.
But it is not my favourite book for one particular reason. When the book came out, it was during COVID lockdown and I found Kaladin’s story arc, combined with the the isolation I felt at the time and the shorter winter days (less daylight), was just too much to handle. I mean, kudos for Brandon writing so effectively (in general, he certainly did not plan it that way to impact people over a lockdown), but I literally had to put the book down mid-way through until spring when the longer days of sunshine came back.
So for me, it was a hard read. The hardest part perhaps deciding to pick it back up.
I think this could have been my favourite book, because there are so many brilliant things about it.
Perhaps over time my brain will let me be more forgiving of the experience I went through when first reading WoR, but even during the reread I found that quasi-claustrophobia creeping back into my mind.
Thank you, dear ladies! I will miss these discussions terribly.
I think we have WoB that T-Odium hoodwinked Hoid, but Brandon also started this with Wit saying the story teller cheats. T-Odium obviously took memories in breathes but I bet Hoid is smart enough to have them stored in a metal mind, too, anticipating just such a theft. A year and a half till we find out…..
Thank you again. I miss you already.
@20 beth You bring up a good point that brandon pretty much says that storyteller cheats; heck, it is important to Shallan’s story; that details are missing so it is a pretty important theme of the book itself.
I do find it hilarious that each epilogue always ends with Wit giving the readers writing advice.
@21: Wit also says that he began as words on a page. He’s a very meta character, isn’t he?
I would be surprised if this chapter, which starts with a speech about deception, and making the audience feel the power of the truths the deceiver has made up, isn’t pointing us in the direction of Hoid successfully pulling one over on Taravangian. It would be a really weird authorial decision to have that and then the chapter bear no relation to it – which it wouldn’t if Hoid doesn’t pull off some kind of con.
I don’t think you could call Taravangian’s actions a real deception. It’s much more of a smash and grab – editing Hoid’s memories because his attempt to lie failed.
Lots of very interesting thoughts already shared, about how the author may be misdirecting us into thinking T vs Hoid got the upper hand, copper coins could be copperminds storing the exchange, etc.
A couple other things that stuck out at me on reread: this is TOdium, and yet still has a visceral hatred for Hoid. So we probably have to conclude that it’s the Intent of the Shard that aims to destroy him, not just Rayse’s personality. That in turn would give some insight into Hoid’s goals (i.e., probably not good for Odium), though this has been seeming likely for quite some time based on Hoid teaming up with Dalinar et al, etc.). Second, in the first encounter, we get “Never mind. It matters not.” from Odium as a self-follow-up to the “humor me” about the question about who Hoid would pick as Odium’s champion; in the second encounter we still have “It doesn’t matter” but now that’s a direct reply to “no one else can stand your company”. Did TOdium make a mistake when cutting out the “bad parts” of the conversation and leave a noticeable gap in the dialogue to hint that something is awry (a “glitch in the matrix”, so to speak)?
Anyway, thanks to all for the reread; I will add another vote for covering El’s musings all assembled, an updated rundown on secret societies on Roshar, and the Secret Projects.
Regarding that “Unless…”
Dalinar and Odium’s agreement only covers two outcomes: what happens if Dalinar wins, and what happens if Odium wins. And Wit told a story, in the very context of making that agreement, about how he was once screwed over because he forgot to account for a tie.
Just sayin’.
I doubt Tor will want to reread the Secret Projects until after Tor publishes the non-Kickstarter versions of them and they’ve been out for a while.
@26 Carl
This one started a month or less after the hardcover came out. Tor’s edition of SP1 is already out, so I don’t foresee a problem.
@25, @27
Heck, this reread actually started before the book came out when it was a read along using the preview chapters.
I vote for tress, or maybe we can get some wax and wayne rereads.
@28 I was actually a little sad that we treated the preview chapter “read”s as part of the reread, as it meant that we didn’t get a forum to discuss things in the early chapters that related to spoilery bits later in the book.
I don’t start looking at this (or anything potentially spoilery) until I have finished the book. The only exception was listening to Brandon read the initial chapters of the secret projects, and that was long enough I barely remember anything from them.
I also want to thank Steven Hedge and beekay for posting today. It helps with the withdrawal symptoms ;)
@16 Hoid doesn’t have access to ferochemy to the best of our knowledge. It would take hemalergy to get it as it is a birthright ability tied to scadrial. I think Hoid wouldn’t do that. We know he got the power of a mistborn by ingesting lerasium but i dont see him spiking himself nor taking a spiked piece of another’s soul.
This might have been covered in the discussion already, but it occurred to me that Mistborn has taught us that metalminds are not nearly as infallible as we’d like, especially when a Shard is peering into them. Hopefully TOdium doesn’t care to look too closely.
I got distracted from the re-read this year and only now managed to finish all the installments. I would like to thank all the re-readers past and present for the enjoyment that they have provided me over the years! Speaking of possible future re-reads, I propose the Mistborn sequence.
A couple of things in RoW that I wanted to point out:
I felt that Dalinar’s deal with Odium was very bad from the moment I first read the relevant chapter. First and most problematically of all, it only covers humans. Intelligent spren and any eventual non-human allies are being left out to dry at Odium’s non-existent mercy. What was Hoid thinking when he advised on it?!! Second, after they changed the agreement, were even provisions about Hoid’s safety included? He seems to think so, but it wasn’t in the wording. Yes, I know that it is supposed to be spirit over letter, but still the final deal was frighteningly vague.
I didn’t think that Hoid got the upper hand in this meeting and now there is even a WoB that he didn’t, IIRC. Basically, Rayse was axed because he had already lost so many times and didn’t seem sufficently dangerous anymore, so it didn’t make sense to start a new Vessel with yet another failure, IMHO. I think that the “horribly wrong” thing with the power that Hoid sensed was that it wasn’t being directed by Rayse. And of course there is the dreaded loophole of them fighting to a draw, I assume, though as I already mentione, there are also plenty of other issues.
Regarding Sja-Anat, Taravangian is fully aware of her double-dealing, so we shall see how it all turns out. He should be properly wary of Renarin, but now there is also Rlain, who may be unknown to him.
I really loved Eshonai and still think that a plot-line of her slowly fighting her way out of mental enslavement could have been interesting and like nothing else in SA. But at least she got a nice send-off.
Was Cultivation horribly mistaken? We shall see once her goals become clearer. Just because she hated Rayse doesn’t mean that they are necessarily “good” from our PoV either.
@Isilel: I still think (hope) that Vasher/Zahel will end up helping Hoid/Wit. We know that centuries ago, during Warbreaker, he was already a master of memory-editing Awakening. He probably hasn’t forgotten (wit intended, and Wit pun also intended).
Carl @34:
Vasher could erase memories in Warbreaker. Once gone they most likely can’t be restored. And Todium appears to have taken the Breaths themselves away from Hoid somehow, or destroyed them.
I am honestly surprised that Hoid uses external short-term memory storages rather than reserving them for important long-term ones.
A question I saw on Facebook wondered what memories TOdium might have removed from Hoid’s. Besides the obvious that Rayse is not the Shard anymore, I’m wondering if there might have been some contingency plans around the Contest that are no longer there. For that matter, do we know if memories can be altered rather than removed?
On a different note, if you are unaware, Paige and Lindsey have started an Elantris reread. Check it out.
What I am wondering here is, that nobody really asked, WHY exactly Taravangian wants to prevent Hoid from knowing, that the vessel for the Shard has changed.
He could have went into the meeting with a “Hi, I am the new Odium” kind of approach, but he tried to play a role from the start. He even went so far as to wipe out some memories to keep this information for himself. So it seems likely, that the loophole in the agreement has something to do with his identity.
Talking about Breaths: Am I the only one, who wonders what Vasher/Zahel was doing during the whole time of Urithirus occupation? Okay, he is only a few hundred years old, really young compared to the fused, but still he is afighter and scientist. I find it hard to believe, that he just sat around doing nothing.
@37 Masisib, AFAIR(emember) BS has indictaed that what Zahel was doing was important, and that we will (probably) find out in book V. I am still so curious why Vasher is so important to SA (or maybe its nightblood) considering that BS has said that warbreaker is the preface to the whole SA (i.e., on some level, its not just a standalone..
Wild theory: Zahel/Vasher/Warbreaker/Peacegiver/all-his-other-names went to Sel to appear in the Elantris sequel. He’s looking for sources of Investiture to stay alive without having to eat soul-fragments, right? He clearly learned how to consume Stormlight. The Dor is even more available (no waiting for the next Highstorm) and remarkably potent. The symbol-based magic of Sel would probably fascinate one of the Five Scholars, too.
Plus, it lets him dodge Azure.
According to my unreliable memory of what Brandon has said, the Elantris sequel should be happening right around “now”, shouldn’t it? We know … spoilers for Mistborn follow:
that one survivor of the Elantris sequel appears in Mistborn: The Lost Metal.
Actually, I’m starting to like this theory.
Okay, this may be a bit of a spoiler, but hopefully enough time has passed, but Secret Project 3 does in fact reference what I am pretty sure is this specific moment…so that’s kinda interesting for the timing of all of it and what Hoid is up to in general.